Robert F. Kennedy Jr. melted down and berated CNN’s Dana Bash in a wild brawl over Dr. Anthony Fauci, President Donald Trump, and vaccines.
In a marathon battle on CNN’s State of the Union Sunday, the HHS Secretary — a years-long Fauci critic who has ramped up his attacks in recent days — defended Trump’s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic despite the fact that Trump kept Fauci in a position of power.
“You have been placing nearly all the blame on the COVID pandemic and the way that the U.S. Responded to it squarely with Dr. Fauci,” Bash told Kennedy. “But of course, he worked for President Trump. Does President Trump also deserve some of the blame?”
“President Trump, as you recall, wanted to end lockdowns,” Kennedy said. “I think the thing that did the most damage to our country was the lockdowns, the lockdown that shut down 3.5 million businesses in our country with no due process, no just compensation. All of our churches closed, our schools, and our children are still paying the price for that. And yet we had the worst outcome of any country in the world … We have the highest death rate from COVID of any nation on earth.”
Bash fact-checked Kennedy.
“That’s not accurate,” Bash said. “Because public health experts say that there is a combination of factors that went into that, higher rates of chronic illnesses, which I know you would agree with, gaps to our health care system, and misinformation about vaccines.”
Kennedy doubled-down.
“You just said what I said was inaccurate,” Kennedy said. “What I said was accurate. We had the highest death rate from COVID of any place.”
Bash noted that, “there are other countries that had higher” — and indeed Johns Hopkins data shows there are 13 countries which had a higher COVID death rate.
Kennedy circled back to defend Trump after Bash followed-up. But the interview really got heated when Bash asked Kennedy how he’s preparing for the next pandemic.
“We need to protect our constitutional rights, that is the primary obligation of our country,” Kennedy said. “During COVID, we completely dismantled our constitutional rights. We began censoring people in violation of the First Amendment.”
“Forgive me, but you’re just you’re talking about rights, and I’m asking about a potential public health crisis,” Bash said.
“And one of the mistakes we made in the last time was suppressing those rights so people weren’t being heard,” Kennedy said. “Doctors who were saying, you’re doing it wrong, were being marginalized and vilified.”
Bash tried to switch topics, but Kennedy sniped at her.
“I really want to move on,” Bash said.
“Of course you want to move on, ’cause you were part of the problem!” Kennedy said.
“No I wasn’t part of the problem!” Bash shot back.
“There was absolute press malpractice,” Kennedy said. “You weren’t doing your job, and your job is a fierce skepticism toward authority. You weren’t doing that. You were beating up on people who were dissenting.”
“Do you want to sit here and attack me or do you want to have conversations about public health?” Bash asked.
“You’re attacking me!” Kennedy replied.
“I’m not attacking you!” Bash responded. “I’m asking questions about how to prevent the next pandemic. That’s what I’m trying to do. But I also don’t want to use this interview to allow you to say things that aren’t entirely true. You’re talking about therapeutics. Fine. It is also factually true that the COVID vaccine worked. The COVID vaccine prevented deaths. There is data, upon data, upon data.”
Kennedy took issue with that.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: You think the COVID vaccine protected children?
BASH: I think that what I have to talked to scientists and doctors—
KENNEDY: Can you show me one study that shows that children were protected by the COVID vaccine?
BASH: I can!…I can tell you that when it comes to the vaccine there have been studies that show that because of vaccine disinformation, disinformation there could have been a hundred to two hundred thousand lives in the U.S. saved. But because people didn’t get the vaccine that’s why — I’m not saying that it entirely… let me finish!
KENNEDY: You are saying nonsense! You are saying something that you cannot show me a single study that says that.
BASH: I am not saying nonsense! Excuse me! Excuse me!
KENNEDY: Cite me the study! What study?!
BASH: What studies are you talking about? You’re actually talking about studies that actually don’t exist!
The first half of the interview wrapped with Kennedy accusing CNN of “scaring people.”
“Let me just say, for the record, that I am not saying that the entire way that the COVID reaction was accurate,” Bash said. “It was a scary time and people made mistakes. Absolutely.”
“You were scaring people!” Kennedy said.
“Why are you saying that?” Bash said.
“Because that was the job of CNN!” Kennedy shot back.
“OK stop!” Bash said. She added, “We were listening to the leaders in this country, including the president who had a daily press conference, explaining what was going on and trying to listen.”
And that was just the first part of this stunning debate — which raged on for 21 minutes. We will cover the second part of the fiery battle shortly.
Watch above, via CNN.
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